Yesterday evening, Carol Marin convened a roundtable of state legislators on WTTW's Chicago Tonight to talk about the latest developments in the fall veto session. Not surprisingly, the conversation quickly turned to an item that's conspicuously absent from Springfield's legislative agenda: the looming budget crisis. Per usual, the Republican members of the bipartisan panel tried to pin the state's budget problems on wasteful spending.Thankfully, Marin did her homework.

"Illinois is the fifth most populous ... state and it is in thebottom five for spending on state government," Marin said at one point. "By those metrics, we're not throwing tons of money into programs. Arewe?" Indeed, in 2007, Illinois ranked 39th in the nation in per capita state spending.  But State Sen. Randy Hultgren (R-Wheaton) still tried to take issue with her characterization.  "It's amazing how you can work those numbers," he said, before going on to complain that higher tax rates would purportedly drive business away from the state -- a theory that Marin also questioned.

Chicago Democrat Rep. Will Burns appeared on the panel as well, where he continued to make his case for restructuring the state's income tax to generate the sort of revenue required to fund education, health, and human services adequately and pay off the state's mounting debts. "Even if we do increase our revenues, we're going to have to continue to make substantial cuts to the budget," Burns said referring to the coming year's gaping budget hole. "The question is what kind of cuts do we make?" Watch:

Here's the transcript for the clip excerpted above:

BURNS: Even if we do increase our revenues, we're going to have to continue to make substantial cuts to the budget. The question is what kind of cuts do we make.

MARIN: What kind of cuts do we make?

BURNS: We have to be mindful of the fact that the state of Illinois is not a business. The business of the state of Illinois is taking care of the most vulnerable people in our society; senior citizens, people with developmental disabilities, kids in schools. And so, we have to become more efficient in how we spend money but we also have to make important investments that reduce the state's long-term costs. We can provide community care for a senior citizen to stay in their home and stay independent and that's less expensive than a nursing home.

MARIN: Illinois is the fifth most populous, producing state and it is in the bottom five of spending money for spending on state government. By those metrics, we're not throwing tons of money into programs. Are we?

BURNS: No

HULTGREN: I still think we are. It's amazing how you can work those numbers. One thing that I think Rep. Burns mentioned is we're not a business. But what we're doing here does impact business in the state of Illinois. What we haven't talked about that we have a 10.5 percent unemployment rate here in Illinois and any kind of tax increase is going to raise that level of unemployment. I think back 10 years ago where it seemed like we were flush with cash. Part of it was that the economy was growing, we were creating jobs. We've gone completely in the opposite direction. I still think the best thing we can be doing in the state of Illinois is to be growing the economy, growing our jobs making it a place that people want to do business. Then there is natural revenue growth there that happens as people do business. But unfortunately, we've been driving business from the state of Illinois. And income tax or other tax would do that as well.

MARIN: Business isn't heavily taxed in this state compared with an awful lot of states.